Church Discipline - 7. How?

We'll help you follow along. So we have been doing a series on church discipline, what, why, when, and how. And so I gave a definition, what is church discipline? Well, it's when the church confronts a member in his sin, and if he refuses to repent, ceases to regard him as a Christian. And why would the church do that? Well, it's to restore the offender, to protect other believers, to preserve the church's witness, and to glorify God. And then we've been talking about when this would be called for. What kind of sin would call for discipline? And well, it's if the sin is unrepentant, observable, and clear in scripture. And then last week, we started looking at some examples to try to apply this and to think about things that maybe folks have had questions about or that issues we're gonna face on, you know, maybe a periodic basis and so we just need to think through. So we talked about the case of heresy and when and why and how that could be a grounds for church discipline. And then we talked about non-attendance. So someone's a member of our church and they're just not involved in any way. and when and why and how that could be a grounds for discipline. And then there was a third one that we ran out of time for and that was repeat offenses. And so tonight I thought I would just briefly touch on that. I wasn't going to spend too much time on that last week. And then we're going to try to press on to talking about how. So what's the process? discipline. So what about these repeat offenses? So what I have in mind here is when someone just seems to keep going back to the same sin, and then they say they're sorry, and then they fall back into the sin again. And so especially if it's something, you know, like an addiction, Maybe it's just lying, maybe it's gossip, maybe it's being a hothead, maybe it's adultery. Whatever it is, when there's just these repeat offenses, how do you handle that? And I think there's two main principles at work. Number one would be that we forgive 70 times seven times. So in Matthew chapter 18, right after the section on church discipline, the very next thing is Peter asks Jesus, so how many times will my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Is it up to seven times? And Jesus says, well, I do not say to you up to seven times, but up to 70 times, seven times, or 77 times. It's repeated. Jesus is saying there's no limit to how many times we forgive because, of course, there's no limit to how much God has forgiven us. So we're not sort of keeping a record to say, okay, you've reached the limit. We forgive as many times as there's sin. But the second principle at work is that we need to distinguish repentance, that is genuine repentance, from mere worldly sorrow. So in 2 Corinthians chapter 7, Paul talks about godly grief, and then he talks about worldly grief. And he says, godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death. And so I think someone can seem very repented on the outside. There may be tears. There may be a great deal of sorrow over sin. There may be lots of promises and assurances that it won't happen again. And that can just be worldly grief. Paul goes on there to talk about some of the marks of godly grief and genuine repentance. And he says, for see what earnestness this godly grief has produced in you, but also what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal, what punishment, At every point, you have proved yourselves innocent in the matter. So, of course, we could spend a lot of time diving into that, but for now, I just want to kind of lay out this principle that, you know, especially when there's these repeat offenses, it does really challenge us to consider, is this person's repentance, is it genuine? Or is there some point where we just have to say, I don't know that there's credible repentance here. And I don't know that this person is living in a way that would sort of be evidence of someone who's genuinely been born again and is no longer a slave of sin, but is walking in the power of the gospel. So whenever there's sort of this situation of repeat offenses, we have to keep both of those principles in mind. And I just think it's going to take a lot of pastoral care and wisdom. So any, I don't want to spend too long there, but any questions about that? Dennis? So another question why we have the principle of preserving the church's witness, and I'm wondering if that might impinge on the decision of whether to Yeah. Yeah, it's a great question. And I do think it's where some of these sort of purposes of church discipline, there's a tension. So on one hand, we want to restore. On the other hand, we want to protect and preserve. And those are sort of intention. And so I think that's where, on one hand, we believe in a gospel. that is all about grace, that says even very serious sin, when there's repentance, there's grace in Christ. We wanna make sure that's very clear. On the other hand, we believe in a gospel that brings about transformation of life, that demands holiness. And we need to make sure that's clear. And so yeah, I think there's a tension there and there's an appropriate balance that we're gonna have to work through as we navigate specific issues. Yeah. And if anything, I hope this just helps us feel like there's not just a simple solution. I mean, church discipline, these are difficult situations that you kind of have to work through very carefully case by case. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yes. Yes. Right, so there, exactly. There could be legal consequences that, you know, that's a whole separate thing that we would stand behind. And then even within the church, yeah, what, you know, stepping down from ministries, sort of restriction on what the person is doing. And part of rebentance is, I think, accepting those consequences, whatever they would be. So, good. All right. Well, let's press on now to begin thinking about this question of how. And by how, I mean, what's the process of church discipline? And I just want to open up. So where would you go as you think about church discipline process? Where in scripture? Matthew 18, yes, and that is certainly like the sort of key text procedurally. So you can turn there in your Bibles. And as we're turning there, I'm gonna argue that Matthew 18, it lays out four steps. And what is step one? Yes, so there's a, Let me make sure I get my private confrontation. So step one, you put private confrontation. And so in Matthew chapter 18, verse 15, it says, if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you've gained your brother. So the goal there is you're going to them, not just to make him feel bad for how he hurt you or to vent your anger. You're going to try to gain your brother, hoping he will listen and repent and there can be restoration right there. But if he doesn't listen, then what's the second step? Well, verse 16, it's small group confrontation. So Matthew 18 verse 16 says, but if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. So it's, you know, language sort of like in a courtroom. There are witnesses who are providing or I think you could add maybe weighing evidence to establish the charges. Now, by witnesses, I don't think it necessarily means that there has to be additional eyewitnesses who sort of saw the sin taking place. But I think these could be people who are there to hear both sides and sort of see what facts can be established. You know, and then in light of that, it's their job to evaluate whether the sin that you're charging this person with is actually unrepentant, observable, and clear. You know, if it kind of seems like, you know, you guys are all agreeing on what happened and they're like, yeah, I think this is just sort of you being a bit petty, or I think this is just, you know, not really something that scripture is very clear about, or, you know, maybe they decide, you know, this doesn't seem like, you know, clear sin, and I think the person that you think sinned against you should be shielded from being accused in front of the whole church, right? Their job is to kind of say, no, that really shouldn't go forward. But on the other hand, if they're hearing these things and they think, yeah, this is clear and observable sin, well, then they're going to join you in confronting this person and calling him to repent as well. So that's the second step would be this small group confrontation. And then you go to step three, which is beginning of verse 17. And he says, if he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And so I've called this step church confrontation. And of course, this is why we have members meetings where the church could be told of something like this. And notice here that the church is not merely informed, but they're actually involved. Because the very next phrase in verse 17 says, and if he refuses to listen, even to the church, right? So the idea here is that the church hears what's going on, and then the church is agreeing, yes, this is unrepentant, observable and clear sin. And then the church is joining in and confronting the person and calling for repentance. So this is one reason that ordinarily we're kind of, if there's a discipline case, it's either shared at a member's meeting or it's sort of, the church is brought into that before we would actually vote because we want other people to join in. And the hope is that the witness of all these people in the church all saying the same thing, yes, brother or sister, like you need to repent. The hope is that would win them. But they would come to their senses and realize like, yes, I must be wrong because everybody else is seeing an issue with this. So up to that point, we're hoping to win them, gain them. However, if they still will not listen, then the fourth step is removal by discipline. And that's the second part of verse 17 where Jesus says, and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. So instead of the status of a brother, as you see in verse 15, now he is a Gentile or a tax collector. So this person is removed from the fellowship of the church, and they should be treated like an unbeliever. So that's the basic process. Now, what I want to do is try to dig into this a little bit with four, I think, important questions. First one is this, so what role should the elders play in all this? It's interesting, the elders are not mentioned in Matthew 18. So, what do you guys think? How should the elders be involved in that process, and why? Robert? I would say around step three, so that when it's being brought to the church, it's sort of like a vetting process. This isn't a clique of people that are mad at the other clique of people, Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah, I think, I mean, well, two things. One, actually in our church constitution, it really calls for elder involvement. I'll just read a section from that. It says, corrective church discipline should ordinarily be contemplated after individual private admonition has failed. Anyone with a charge against a fellow member shall attempt to address the concern in accordance with Jesus' instructions in Matthew 18. Should one's brother or sister in Christ refuse to listen, the concern should be taken to the elders. And then the elders shall be entrusted with the responsibility of pursuing both formative and corrective discipline, including admonition, suspension from the Lord's table, removal from ministry, service, and teaching responsibilities, and if necessary, recommendation for removal from membership. And it says a two-thirds vote at any members meeting with two weeks notice is required for dismissal. So our Constitution, yeah, it says elders should be brought in before this is shared with the church. And I think that's a function of understanding, you know, one of the ways the New Testament talks about the office of elder is as an overseer. You know, that elders are to oversee the church, and that certainly includes overseeing the meetings of the church. So, you know, unless there's something really wrong with the elders, right, unless we are really off track, I think it would be out of order for, you know, three members to stand up at a members meeting and sort of announce, we have a new order of business, there's this church discipline case. I think part of God's design is for elders to be involved as overseeing that. Elders are certainly to be training the congregation. That's why we're doing this, so that you guys will be equipped to kind of think about this, because ultimately, we're congregational. We think church discipline is an act of the church. And then elders are also called to be shepherds. And part of the role of a shepherd is to be pursuing the straying sheep. Natalie? Did you say, like, bring it up after individual confrontation, or after I think situationally it could be either way. Yeah. Yeah. Good question. And that kind of brings us to the next question, which is, how rigid is this process? Right? Because, you know, there's a way of reading Matthew 18, say, whoa, whoa, whoa, well, Jesus doesn't add a step to elders, so maybe we're wrong if you kind of insert an extra step, or, you know, maybe Jesus means you're only supposed to have, you know, one meeting, and then a meeting with one or two elders, and then the church, and that's it. And I actually think that no, in fact most of the time there's quite a few meetings. I think often it's just not crystal clear right away whether the person is listening or not. That may take multiple meetings to figure out. It's not always immediate that you can establish every charge. You know, so each step here may need multiple meetings and that's part of where I think elders can be involved. On the other hand, I think there can be times where there would be less meetings. For example, in 1 Corinthians chapter five, there's a situation where a man is sleeping with his mother-in-law and Paul does not say anything about steps one and two. He goes straight and says, step three, the church needs to take action to remove him. And I think at least part of the reason in that case is because this apparently was already known publicly. This didn't need to have private conversations because this was a public sin. So my point here is that I don't think Jesus intends to lay out sort of a universal, rigid process, but rather to illustrate what the process generally looks like, and then there's gonna be some situational flexibility. So we need to kind of discern what principles are at play here, and then how do they apply in a different situation. And then that leads us to a third important question, which is, does this same process apply for all kinds of sin or just personal offenses? If you go back to verse 15, you'll notice that Jesus begins this section by saying, if your brother sins against you, So, there's a sort of history in the church where some read that and think, okay, Jesus is talking here about kind of a personal offense, like, you know, I lied to you, I stole from you, there's kind of between me and you. And then they will say, but 1 Corinthians 5 is actually talking about a sort of a different category of sin, sort of a gross public sin. So, you know, if I steal, if I'm extorting money from the church, well, I'm not really a personal offense against any one of you, it's a sin against all of you. Or if I, you know, go rob a bank, well, it's going to be on the news. It's sort of a little bit different. And so, some have kind of tried to say, well, Matthew 18 lays out one process for one category of sin, and 1 Corinthians 5 lays out this different process for a different category of sin. And often people who kind of go down that path will even argue that in a case of public gross sin, there should be immediate excommunication irrespective of repentance. So the idea there is like, because it's public, the church needs to sort of vindicate its name by taking immediate action and sort of irrespective of whether the person is repentant or not. Now, my view on all of this is, you know, as I already started to argue before, I agree with people who are kind of recognizing some differences here that Matthew 18 was not intended to be rigidly applied to every case, no matter what. I do think it's significant that Jesus is specifically talking about if your brother sins against you. He kind of has that primarily in mind. On the other hand, I don't think that we should interpret these by just bifurcating them. as if you can kind of cleanly separate, well there's certain sin that fits into this category and certain sin that fits into that category and there's sort of a totally different process for different kinds of sin. I actually think The goal here should be, again, trying to distill the principles that are at work, recognizing there's actually a lot in common between these two chapters in the Bible. They're both aimed at the good of the offender. They want restoration in 1 Corinthians 5. It's deliver him to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved. They both seem to have in mind a concern for the reputation and witness of the church to the world. So I don't think the idea is to just separate them completely. I think we need to look for the principles at work and say, okay, this is scripture, kind of in this case, there's this process, and okay, there's some differences here, but then what happens when there's something in the middle? Because I think there's a lot of sin that, you know, what about a case of adultery? Well, okay, it's a personal offense against one person. It's also, you know, a pretty serious sin. Like, there's a whole spectrum. And we're going to have to kind of be able to wisely apply the principles at stake and kind of a holistic understanding of what church discipline is, what it's for, what it means to help us work through some specific situations. So again, just coming back to this theme that I think there's going to need to be some situational wisdom as we work through that. Any questions about that? We think about sort of the process. I think a general, you know, in Matthew 18, there does seem to be, you know, it's kept more private while it can stay that way. And it gradually is, you know, made more public as time goes on, if there's not repentance. Yeah, that's a great question. Yeah, I think it's gonna depend on a lot of factors, like what's our relationship with that church like? I mean, is it a church that practices church discipline? But ideally, if it's serious enough, of course there's times when someone offends you in some way and you go to them, but it's not something that seems like it rises to the level of church discipline, it's just sort of a, you know, as a friend, well, let's talk. But yeah, if it's something that's serious enough to think, you know, I think for this person's good, they need some accountability. I think, yeah, maybe going to the pastors there, explaining the situation, if he won't listen to you, trying to get them involved, I think that could be appropriate. as a believer that had some significant issues in his life. And after trying to talk through it with him, and not seeing a lot of change, I chose to go to his pastor, who I know to a degree. And without going into details, to just say, hey, would you be willing to check in on this man who's a friend of mine, that is a member of your church, and I have concerns for him? And he kind of let me take it from there. without trying to round about or expose his situation to them without his approval of me. So, yeah. Yeah. Great. As we've been talking, the principle that keeps coming to my mind is, why would you do any of this? And it comes back to the goal is so that the person can know they're safe. I think even in the manner of expelling someone from a church, they may think they've might be what brings them back in, if you love them enough to be firm and respectful enough. You know, 1 Peter 4 says, love covers them all to the sins. So I was going to bring that up into the offenses. I know I offend people all the time, not intentionally, but it happens. If it's brought to my attention, I'll try to do better. So I think there's some things in iron sharpens iron kind of sparks fly and you just have to be able to love them and let it go. the ability to discern the difference. Whenever we talk about this, it's not that the elders are the sin police, you know, it's that we genuinely care about, the church cares about people, and the elders care about our welfare, because their biggest thing is, this person died, are they, you know, this person, are they saved? If they know Christ, they only think they knew Christ. I have to answer for God what I did in that process. Yeah. Yeah. Just to borrow from Mark, we chatted about this earlier this afternoon. And I mean, just the more that we have a genuine love for that person, a love for the church and a love for God, like that's going to be the rudder that kind of guides us through all the specifics of the situation. If we're guided by a genuine love for that person, for the church and for God, I think we're going to have wisdom. If we lack love, we're bound to go astray. All right, we need to wrap up there. And I know we didn't hit on the last point, but we are over time. So we're gonna close and I'll make sure to find a way to cover that, because it's an important thing to hit on. Let's pray. Father, we thank you for this time to just meditate on your word and to seek to understand how to apply it well we do pray for for wisdom and we pray for love we pray that we would grow in love for one another love for your church and love for you and we pray these things in Jesus name amen all right and now