Q&A Genesis 42-43

Hey everyone, thanks again for listening to Q&A with a Pastor. My name is Asher Griffin and I'm sitting down with Dr. Keith Goad, pastor of Jefferson Park Baptist Church. Keith, thanks for joining us again. One thing that I want to jump into is obviously you were talking about reconciliation this weekend in Genesis 42 and 43. How is our reconciliation with one another? So apologizing, forgiveness, that kind of thing. How is our reconciliation from man to man different from God's reconciling us to him? Yeah, well the big difference there is God is always good. God never sins. So God has no apology to make. Whereas usually in most human relationships there's a two-way sin going on. Now if someone may initiate the sin and then someone else will respond to that sin with sin. It's kind of like in marriage counseling. There's never one innocent party and one guilty party. There is usually culpability and then some other sinful responsibility. But God, in His reconciling ministry, He is good. He is the one being attacked. He is the one being sinned against alone. And He is the one who does all of the proactive, intentional mercy ministry to draw people who are against Him to Him. So, yeah, with God reconciling, the God who reconciles, He He's the one who is wrong and he is the one who is doing everything possible to make it right. by sending his son, who is then killed, who dies for sinners, and then rises again for us. All right. Now, you said in the sermon that God calls us to seek out reconciliation among ourselves, among other brothers and sisters. How important is this to do on a regular basis? Should it be like a, should I think through who have I offended in the last week, or is that to looking inwardly? How regular should we make this a practice to seek out reconciliation from others? I guess it really depends on how big of a sinner you are. Well, really, it's not a matter of how big of a sinner we are. It has more to do with how much we recognize our own sin. That's a key issue. So, I believe we are depraved. I believe we are always sinning. I believe we are always somehow seeing this one another. It's a matter of how blatant it is. It could be a little grudge. a misunderstanding, it could be somebody that said something to you the wrong way. I don't know if we always have to go seek forgiveness. A lot of times it's just letting things go, not holding on to something that may have just been a small comment on the way. They didn't intend anything by it, but you took it the wrong way. And that's the hard part. Oftentimes we will rationalize words and our own ideas to not confront. But sometimes it isn't worth confronting. Sometimes it's just, you know what, they didn't mean anything intentional by it. I just was sensitive at the time and I need to get over it and show them grace and move on. But I think it's something we should think about regularly. There are 140 plus members of this church, 180 regular attendees. They're all sinners. sins happening at this church every Sunday at some level and we have to make sure we're proactively thinking about how are we sending it to other people? How are we also promoting Godliness? So how do we go about that on a normal basis? Is there a normal pattern? Do we see anything in Scripture? Do we have to seek out forgiveness once a week or forgive others once a week? Yeah, I think a lot of it is simply not holding grudges, showing grace and not holding grudges, not letting bitterness take root. That would be the number one step. If someone says something intentionally against you though, if someone has said something in the past intentionally against you and you were offended and that's never been reconciled, It's not water under the bridge at that point. That needs to truly be addressed. If something has been said publicly, say at a church conference, someone says something publicly that is rude, offensive, slanderous, I think the public offense should be publicly acknowledged and publicly reconciled. And quickly. Yeah. That's how the church will see in weakness and confessing sin and showing forgiveness. The gospel will be glorified. One of the questions I have is how can you proactively take account for your guilt and seek repentance from God and others? This weekend we're going to be doing the Lord's Supper. Is this something that we should actively take inventory for especially before the Lord's Supper so as not to come with a guilty conscience nor an angry mind against someone else. Yeah, this is the once a month that is helpful to think through making sure there's peace among the body as Paul instructs in 1st Corinthians. How to do it? A lot of it is being self-aware. Being self-aware of how you use your words. And there has to be a spirit of vulnerability and accountability. That's one of the things I've really tried to create as a culture in the church. Because we're not going to talk about our sin and we're not going to talk about the sin of others. We're not going to talk about how we've been offended and the offense of others until there's a sweet gospel culture where we're willing to be vulnerable. We're willing to say, that hurt. We're willing to say, we're weak in that hurt. That's a key part of it. A lot of it is just, I think we talked about this last week, we're survival of the fittest down deep in our hearts. It's repenting of that kind of mentality, that I'm tough enough to get through this. I'm just wondering a little bit more about apologizing. Now, obviously, men and women do it differently. A guy will kind of try to shrug it off. If something happens, he'll kind of go, my bad, man, or like, hey, are we cool? Or something through a text or maybe an email is not to approach one another face to face. Should we try to work hard at really confronting what's between a brother and a sister in Christ and go at it face to face? Is there a best way to approach reconciliation or can I just do it in a text or an email? Yeah, I don't think that's a male-female thing. I think that's a generational thing. I think that's your generation thing. Well, OK. All right. Let's just look at it. I've never thought about it. I text stupid things. You've never said, like, hey, sorry, bro, on an email? I mean, I don't think your wife would email like that, would she? Have I apologized over an email? Maybe, but not a text. I think a text is just for simple information. Anyway, we can get... But does the way you apologize, is there a best way to seek reconciliation? Should it be done face-to-face? Should it be done in public or private or can, is there, is going about apologizing or forgiving in a casual way good or bad? Yeah, this reminds me of a science episode. Are you allowed to break up with them on their answering machine or do you have to see them face to face or can you call them so forth? It's probably a generational thing. It's a recent thing called answering machine. Okay. Yeah, earlier I talked about if it's a public sin it should be confessed and reconciled. I think the confession fits the crime at some level. I think depending on, you know, if it was a little scuffle over which football team is better and you got a little angry. Yeah, and email seems like, okay, I'm sorry, I was an idiot. That was ridiculous. I know the cowboys are horrible. That's what everyone should email. I know the cowboys are horrible. Yeah, I wouldn't accept that at all. Well, no, you were confessing. Okay, that was me confessing. Yeah, that was your confession. Yeah. I already knew that. Yeah, okay. But yeah, if it's something that really, you know, you were completely out of line. I think we do not speak to one another face to face well enough. There's something about seeing what I would call the grammar of the face. There's something about seeing the sympathy. There's something about seeing someone's hurt. There's something about seeing someone's sympathy. There's something to be able to embrace. That's what I was thinking when I said men and women. You know, women would actually like really hold and comfort one another. Men would give kind of like a side. the padding hug and break it quickly. Yeah, a little high five at the end. Yeah, yeah, fist pump. A firm handshake. So you would suggest that the more personal the better if it is a harsher crime, to use your word. Yeah. All right. Well, just know that I'll never... I don't have like a hard trajectory of that. If it's this, it's this, as if we were in a monastery. But maybe we should do that. I will never apologize to you about the Dallas Cowboys to your face. Just know that. As God is my witness, it won't happen. Alright, let's dig deep into this motif a little bit more. You said that God was not against Joseph's brothers necessarily, but more against their active sin. So, I want to ask, is God currently against anyone, or is he just against what people do and how people act? So, does God hate the sin, but not the sinner? I think it's what we hear a lot. Yeah, and you know, it's helpful to make that distinction for believers, but not unbelievers. Whenever we set up for believers, God obviously hated us as sinners with our sin. But now that we are his children, he loves us as his sons and daughters, but his sin is still opposed. I mean, it just simply is under the wrath of Christ, or under the mercy ministry of Christ on the cross. The problem with the hate the sin, love the sinner mentality is it's usually used to tell the church to go out into the world and treat sinners as if they're not really sinners. Treat them as if their sin is some kind of abstract thing that they carry on like a backpack instead of it's really who they are in their heart. I believe sin comes from the heart which is a very fabric of our being. And so we are sinners. But as Christians, God has made a distinction in us. As Spirit and Twelve, sons and daughters, he loves us. So what does he do with our sin? He still hates it. He's just punished it in Jesus Christ. But the world, yeah, he hates their sin and their sin is part of who they are in the fabric of their own being. And so his wrath is against them. Let me twist that a little bit. I know that when John Owen says that we should hate sin in our life, he's not telling us then as Christians we should hate ourselves. but fighting against what we do as redeemed people under Christ's forgiveness. But if we're not Christian, then in looking at our sin, we should hate our nature and ask Christ to redeem us. Is that what not only is John Owen going for, but how we should look about our sin and our lives? We can't really hate ourselves. That could get pretty depressing and not enjoying what Christ has done for us. Well, sin is foreign to who we were made to be. Sin wasn't how we were made. God made us good and so when sin comes it perverts what was already good. And I think we can look and see as Christians who have the Holy Spirit, the illuminating power of which shows goodness and evil. we can see how our good desires are bent in perverse directions by sin. I think you hate that. I think you hate that constant temptation that flows up from within our hearts that leads us away from God. It is who you are, and it is your sin nature, but it's not the way we were made to be originally. It's not part of the human nature. You have to split some hairs there in terms of, is it part of us? Yes, it is. No, it's not, originally. But I think those distinctions are extremely important to think about because we are sinners. And that sin, when you're a Christian, it is starting to be removed from you because the Spirit is trying to work it out of you. And so when you start to see it, yeah, you see it in light of who God made you to be and who God is, and it's gross and it's ugly. Yeah, it certainly makes you hope for complete redemption and the glorification that comes with when we are with Christ in heaven. Going more, let's just stay with inside us and talk about reconciliation. So let's say that we sin privately and we're not sinning against one another. I think people instinctively think of like pornography or evil thoughts about someone. How do I seek reconciliation for something that is basically just within myself? Yeah, so, I mean, a sexual felony, sinning against your own body, that kind of a thing. Or if you're married, you're sinning against your spouse. If you're a single fellow, you know, you are sinning against your own body. I think confessing it to Christ is obviously the, that is essential, that vertical relationship we talked about. But I think as a Christian brother, you should have someone who has accountability that you're making promises to. A church covenant should actually say, I commit to living a godly life so that I can help lead you to a godly life. And so by sinning against yourself, you're also sinning against the body of Christ in many ways. But I don't think you need to go to the front of the whole church. I think you should have an accountability partner that you go and you confess sin to. Not in a Roman Catholic penance. He doesn't tell you how many Hail Marys to say. But he gives you, I think it's encouraging for someone to go to somebody else and say, I have sinned. And he says to you, you're forgiven in Christ. It's encouraging to hear that audible word of affirmation of God's assurance for you. Yeah, it's very interesting. And I know it always takes kind of one fool to ruin the reputation of many. So we see ourselves as members of Christ's church. Even if I sin privately to the world, I am sinning against the church. That's a great way of finding someone that we can confess into one another with. They're pointing you to Christ, not dispensing grace. Right. We're not in debt to them, necessarily. Growing in godliness together. Seeing Christ within one another, you would say, again and again. I do try to say that again and again, twice and thrice. Very good. Last question. You talked about reconciliation on a horizontal plane and a vertical plane. Let's just say someone wasn't paying attention as closely as they should yesterday. How would you again explain a horizontal plane of reconciliation in a vertical plane? Yeah, can I see your notes on that section to see if that... I mean, you can look. Well, I was looking there from the story because whenever the brothers are first treated harshly by Joseph, they immediately say, we have sinned against our brother and that's why we are under this punishment. So they're kind of, they're recognizing that horizontal relationship with other people. I have sinned against another one of my peers, and now calamity is coming on me for that horizontal sin." Well, then later on, another problem arises, and they say, oh, God is against us. So, they realize they've sinned against God, and His punishment is also coming against them. And so, you see those two confessions there in the story. I use the Ten Commandments as a great example of this. The first three commandments are about how we are true to God and not sin against Him. And then the last six are about how we are supposed to relate to one another. And the key there is that it's God's commandment not to lie. So, if I lie to you, I'm sinning against you, but I'm also sinning against God because he's commanded me not to lie against you. And so, every sin is a vertical sin. And every horizontal sin is a vertical sin. Not every vertical sin is a horizontal sin. I just pointed that out to say, look, when you sin against one another, you are sinning against God. You know, you losing your temper with somebody isn't just a simple little thing between you and Bill. It's sin against God for you to do that. And you need to take that in its most serious consequences, in its most serious calling. Alright, let's look at this evangelistically, because I think Christians, in light of other Christians, it's kind of easy to grasp reconciliation. But if I were to approach someone who is not a Christian, how would I explain reconciliation to them? In not just layman terms, but also to paint a picture of the gospel and to paint a picture of our love for one another as Christians, which is something that they are not a part of. Yeah, I would try. I mean, the first thing that goes on is using the language of Paul. You are far away from God now because you are walking away from him. You are rebelling and trying. You are ignoring Him. You may not think you're rebelling against Him, but everyone who isn't following God is at least ignoring Him and walking away from Him. Well, you are far away from God, and God is drawing you near Him through Jesus Christ. Or, to take it much more seriously for someone who may get their sin better is, you were an enemy of God, and He is seeking to bring you back into that proper friendship. So those are the two main ways Paul talks about and I think are helpful when they're using language in our everyday life that help explain it. The biggest thing is whenever you see your sin and you see that it separates you from God and brings His wrath upon you, you are meant to die because of that sin. But God, instead of letting that sin lay upon you in the just wrath that would come, He has sought to reconcile you. You were created to love God and to be loved by God. You were created for a relationship with God. God has a wonderful plan for your life and it is a relationship with Him. And we have broken that relationship and He has been proactively seeking to renew that relationship. And that's what reconciliation is. And I know that you pointed out the distinctives within that. Within reconciliation there is a repenter and there is a forgiver. So in talking about someone who is not a believer about Christ's reconciliation, how vivid of a picture do you have to say you need to be a repenter in the aspect that Christ will be a forgiver, but right now you're not repenting? I mean, how strong of a stance do you take there? Because we normally want to kind of softball it and say, well, you just need to love God more. But do we ever put it in the category of, you are a rejecter of who Christ is? I mean, you said just a second ago, you're an enemy, using Paul's words. How vivid of a picture do we make that within evangelism? Now, we're not supposed to throw stones or, you know. Yeah. In other words, this upcoming sermon, in the sense that Jesus Jesus' instructions are never meant to get a big following. They're meant to be very hard and clear so that only the most pure believer really follows them. So I think when we're presenting the gospel, we should do the same thing, in that you need to tell someone, if you want to believe that Jesus Christ is forgiven of your sins, well that means you're also going to now call him your Lord. And his rule, you're going to recognize as good over you so that, you know, if you're sleeping with your girlfriend, you're going to stop and you're going to marry her. If you're getting drunk and abusing drugs, you're going to stop being a drunkard and you're going to be a sober-minded believer in obedience to Christ. You're going to quit using your mouth. to put curses on people, you're going to use it to bless people. It really depends on the person. I mean, I've been talking to a lot of younger adults about this, and thankfully, they had a very clear confession of sin, but that's always one of the questionable ones, is how much sin can a young person be aware of? Thankfully, you know, with siblings, there's always selfishness, and there's always lying, and there's always deception of some sort. I think you have to make it very clear. Let me make that clear. I think you have to make repentance and their sin very clear. Which reconciliation with Christ is God's way of loving us, correct? By talking about repentance, that's not avoiding God's love. All right, Keith, thanks so much for answering some of our questions. If you have any questions after a sermon, please either talk to me after the sermon or Keith, and we will try to broadcast those who listen. You can also email your questions into congregation at jpbc.org. Keith, thanks again.