Q&A Genesis 25-26

Thanks for listening to Q&A with the pastor and sitting here with Keith and I'm going to ask him a couple of questions Actually a handful of questions from his past two sermons now Keith this week is VBS week at the church How much of your mind is being blown by how much setup is going on? People are running around Children are about to be screaming And smelly diapers are going to be everywhere. What are your thoughts? I hope they're not everywhere. No, it was the last night's set up was fantastic. It seemed like it really went well. I mean, we got to cut up a lot during the set up. What do you mean cut up? Well, I mean, you were sitting in the hallway goofing off most of the time. When I say we, I meant you. I thought you meant like physically cutting boards and stuff. Oh, no, no, no. You let the women do that, don't you? OK. I really think the Fellowship Hall and the Sanctuary look fantastic. There you go. Now, Keith, we didn't do a Q&A last week, and so we're going to combine this week and last week together. Last week you were, within your sermon, you talked about the doctrine of election. And you were very sure about the doctrine of election in your preaching. Is this a simple concept for everyone to get? How sure of this doctrine should we be? How easy was it for you to grasp originally? How should we think about the doctrine of election in its original teaching? Yeah, I think the doctrine of election is almost counterintuitive to Well at least sinners because we feel like we decide to do whatever we want to do It's not till you become a Christian that you realize yes that those are sinful temptations, and I have other Desires because God has given to me now So all that is saying it's a difficult doctrine. It's a difficult doctrine to grasp I don't Well there have been determinists in the past. I mean, determinism was a strong doctrine of much of Greek philosophy. So I can't say we wouldn't have this doctrine if it weren't absolutely revealed in scripture. But it's a difficult doctrine to grasp. That's why it's one of the more difficult talking points amongst the Baptist churches. It's caused lots of divisions. The doctrine itself hasn't. Sinners arguing over it have. Let me be clear about that. The doctrine itself is glorious. When I first heard it, I actually was angry because I thought, how can that be? No, I have a free will. I'm not a robot. As I wrestled with scripture, I saw that God's love is proactive. God's love is the one who makes all the moves. God's love seeks me out. God's love changes me so that I can respond with just a little bit of love. in faith. You can see the doctrine of election is an extension of God being fully active in our lives and in the universe that he created. Yeah, I mean it's it's saying he's the one that has done all the work. I respond in believing what he has done and therefore I have nothing to boast in. Now obviously the doctrine of election it takes in a lot of presuppositions that you bring to the table, such as what is your definition of free will, what is your definition of God's power, God's knowledge, was the definition of faith. And so it's just hard to come to the table without Scripture addressing a lot of these things directly. You have to be able to say what Scripture says clearly determines what these other things are going to be. So you don't have the doctrine of election and then interpret Scripture from that. You see Scripture and then you from that see the doctrine of election or elective ideas unfold. Yeah, it was only from just seeing clearly God has chosen some to be saved from their sins. It also starts with Dr. Sin. How deep do you see your own sin? How much freedom do you have as a slave to sin to have faith in Christ? These are all presuppositions that you bring to the table when you're talking about the topic. Let's talk about free will for a second. You elaborate on the idea that Adam had free will. Unlike any other person, you said that in the sermon, how are we different than Adam? Now, you explained this a little bit as you preached through Genesis 3, but how are we different in the sense of our choices and our willpower? How are we different than Adam? Yeah, categories are always helpful. That's why we should all be systematic theologians, because it gives us categories. So, Augustine gives us three great categories. Adam, in his original state, was able not to sin. After he sinned, everyone is born in sin. Everyone is born with a sinful nature. And therefore, we all live in a state where we are not able not to sin. We are not able not to sin. Only able to sin. Yes. Well, we're not able not to sin. The negative is actually helpful there. We can choose only as bad as we want to be. We have lots of choices to make in the midst of all the sinful choices we possibly could make. And then the final stage is what we're all hoping for is when Christ will return and give us glorified bodies and then we are not able not to sin. So the end result is actually better than the beginning result with Adam because in the glorified state we are not able not to sin. So Adam, those are the categories. Adam, how does he have free will? Well, he was made good, and he had not yet sinned, and he did not have a perverse desire in him to taint everything he does and everything he chooses. So, Adam, as he heard the offer, well, of Eve, Adam and Eve, as they heard the offer of Satan, they had a real choice to make there. It wasn't a, well, okay, we can hear some of the presuppositions that come in. They had a real choice to obey God or not to obey God. Whereas in our sinful hearts, I believe, without the work of God, we necessarily always choose not to obey God. Yeah, I'm just trying to take the language that Paul gives us as As far as the slavery language of Romans 6, the all men are sinners in Romans 3, it's just so strong. Total depravity really leads you to election. Okay. Let's get really hard with this doctrine of election. How do you reconcile the doctrine of election and the God chooses some to save, which is good. I'm thankful that I would consider myself in that category. But how do you reconcile that with things like miscarriages, infant deaths, intellectual disabilities that would render someone the lack of capacity to confess with their mouth and believe with their heart that Christ is their Lord? Yeah. Well, there's a couple different ways to look at it. I am of the hopeful camp. where I want to see if I can find some rationale, some, not loophole, but some scripture that would help me understand that God does show grace to the miscares, even the sids, you know, an infant who passes away. So, 2 Corinthians 5.10 makes it very clear that God holds us accountable for our works. And many have argued that from that verse, that whenever a child has not yet been able to exercise their sinful nature, they are not going to be held accountable for that sinful nature. So they're only going to be held accountable for what they do with that sinful nature. But if the child never actually sins, if the child never actually acts out of that will, then that child is not judged. for those actions. Is that it? So whenever the judgment... My immediate response is, what do you do with the sinful nature of a child? Yeah, my... I mean, I'm still... I still wrestle with this in the sense that the sinful nature itself appears to be culpable. Yeah. I mean, that's the real question. It's not as if the nature is sinful. It's really asking, when is the child culpable? When is someone truly held responsible? And 2 Corinthians 5.10 is a verse that I think people can hang their hopeful hat on to say God holds us accountable for our works, not our nature. And so if a child has never actually acted out in sin, there's some hope there. Otherwise, another verse, I think Miller Erickson makes this argument that it's Romans 5. grace abounds, where sin abounds, grace abounds. And he argues, and obviously Paul isn't thinking, Paul is not thinking of infants with this verse. It's reading the verse and hoping that it has a certain meaning that allows it to apply to the situation. So, where grace abounds, I hope and pray that when an infant passes away or when someone is handicapped and not able to know what they're choosing or understand the gospel. I'm afraid that God's grace abounds. I seem also to find hope in when Jesus was in the womb and around John who was also in the womb. John was capable of kicking that the presence of the Spirit of God being around him. And so I think that's why as Christians we are anti-abortion because we see that it's a living creature inside of someone. And a living creature made in the image of God, in some capacity, still can respond to God if God gives them enough grace. Now, obviously, the child in the womb was not capable of interacting like you and I would, but in some God-divine way. I don't know if that's kind of stretching it, but is that a possibility? Is that a... Yeah, it's already, well, it's already used John as normative. The guy ate grasshoppers. He's not popular, he's irregular, but yeah. Well, yeah. It certainly is a circumstance right there. Yeah, he was obviously a very special child. He was the last Old Testament prophet. He was prophesied and he had a unique role and his kicking and rejoicing was a sign of fulfillment. But no, I don't think that's wrong. Even in the womb. God chooses Jacob. He's a human being. He's a person that God chooses in the womb. Another argument against abortion. God is choosing a child to be His child. when life begins in the womb. So, ultimately, it is God's choice. It does come down to the womb, but even before a child has even a twinkle in their father's eye. But I think people should still be able to hope in the fact that grace abounds. And I think there is some comfort to see that God only judges us for our works. Let's bounce from that into this previous week's sermon where you talked about God keeping his elect and God showing his faithfulness to his people. You said the quote, all of God is always with us. Can you explain that a little bit more? How does that go into the idea of election and God being faithful? When I hear that, I immediately agree. When I think about it more, it seems a little mystic. How can God be, how can all of God be always with us? Yeah, the mystic thing is interesting. I did mention in a sermon that we have to make sure we always keep the creator-creature distinction. That's what's unique about, it's not unique, it's one of the things that's very helpful about the Christian doctrine of God. Because we have to make sure we balance the eminence and transcendence of God. God being too close so that he's in everything, or he is everything. You know, he's in the trees. He is the trees. Or, you know, too much transcendence where he's a watchmaker. But the creator-creature distinction is helpful because it makes sure God is never reduced to something created. But then that creator is a personal loving God who created us for a relationship. And therefore you've got the transcendence and the eminence. So that's got to be the backdrop of everything. The God who is there is the creator and we are the creature. He is a God who speaks to us. He's a personal God who communicates personally. The all of God is always with us really comes down to a doctrine that one theologian says has a huge PR problem. It's the doctrine of simplicity. It's an archaic doctrine in the sense that no one really talks about it anymore, or if they do, they belittle it. But what the doctrine of simplicity says is that all of God's attributes are really just his being. So God doesn't have one attribute of love, one attribute of holiness, one attribute of goodness. All of God's attributes are His beings. He's not divided up, but we categorize him. It's helpful to be able to categorize him. It's helpful to be able to describe him. What we're trying to do is use creaturely language to describe a creator. We're trying to use fun and language to describe the infinite. So, I can look at a tree and I can see that it has bark, wood, leaves, limbs. Those are parts. God doesn't have parts. God is God. The one being is all that he is. And there's just many ways to describe that one infinite being. So whenever I say, all of God is always with us, God doesn't just send down his love for us. When God says, I am with you, you can absolutely... Yeah, I mean, who can be against us? That's what's so beautiful about that great declaration. Whenever the creator, the one who is able to speak things into existence just by a mere declaration, That is the kind of power, and love, and wisdom, and glory, and beauty that is with you. So, all that to say, you know, God isn't just kind of sending His angels down to help you. God Himself is here to help you, in the personal Holy Spirit. Now, you would say that God is with you personally within the Holy Spirit inside of you, illuminating your heart, within your mind, teaching you, instructing you through things like the Word. Are there any other ways that God is with you? Well, the Spirit is the key point now. I mean, obviously, when God was with Israel, He was with them represented by the flame and the cloud, and there God's presence It appears to be the Father, maybe that's the Son of the Spirit. It's really not that clear. In the New Testament times, well, they had Jesus Christ Himself in human form. Now we have the Spirit, but the Spirit is pointing us to Christ, who takes us into the throne of the Father. And so in that way, all three persons are actually with us via the Spirit. I mean, the Spirit is kind of that direct link. But the Son is always with us. His authority is with us. So when you say, as you normally do, we want to see Christ in each other, or me reacting to you and loving you, I want to see Christ in you, I want you to see Christ in me, that is letting the Holy Spirit take power over our desires, making sure that our desires align with God. and so that we see that interaction work. Is that what you mean by seeing Christ in one another? Yeah, it can't be done without the Holy Spirit. So if two brothers come together and they're both indwelled by the Holy Spirit... they can experience Christ as each one is confessing sin so that they can therefore confess the gospel and show forgiveness. I think Christ is demonstrated in us when the Spirit illuminates sin and illuminates the forgiving power and is reconciliation. Christ is with us through the Spirit. And so the Spirit, the Spirit doesn't point to Himself. That's kind of the most interesting thing about the third person of the Trinity. He's always pointing to the Son, who then points us to the Father. That's why, when we come together, we're not seeking just to experience the Spirit in one another. We're seeking to experience the Christ, who the Spirit points us to. okay so that's why when we say things we want to have like a christ-centered sermon christ-centered worship a christ-centered church yeah and all that yeah okay okay same reason uh you know spurgeon he would always want to exalt christ and he would always get up praying as i've adopted the the practice i believe in the holy spirit there's only one thing i can No matter how clear or how loud I yell Christ, the Spirit isn't actually illuminating it. It's just another guy talking. Kind of along those lines, you spoke about confessing sin to one another, rejoicing in the gospel. I know that I talked to you last week and you said as you were mowing the yard, you were having to preach yourself the gospel within a certain circumstance. Now, not going into that circumstance, but in light of you preaching the gospel to yourself within that practice. You also talked about in this last week's sermon how we see time and time again of man's faithlessness and God's faithfulness and how this is a good example of us using the Bible again and again to see God's faithfulness. So in what ways can we use this example to teach ourselves the gospel in our lives by using the word of God? Yeah, that's what really stood out the most. I wanted to look at all three accounts because here we have a third one. It's built upon the first two. Abraham and Isaac both hear the word of God and then lie. And it's obvious that neither... Isaac is without excuse much more than Abraham because he has much more history. There's more history of God working. But how can we? It isn't just hearing the word before we go into it a temptation. Let's take a mission trip. You get excited sitting here in America thinking about how great a mission trip is going to be. You can get excited about hearing the word and then you go, but when you're there and things get hard and you get sick and you get tired, what sustains you? Well, it has to be the same word that excited you. And so it's too easy to jump in because of excitement from the Word of God. The hard part is actually maintaining and endearing and persevering in the midst of the trial and temptation. And so I think that's kind of where I see Isaac and Abraham. They've jumped in. And then when things get hard, they don't go back to the same thing they jumped in for. So, I think the most important thing is just going back to the same basic beliefs you heard when you became a Christian. If God is good enough to save you from your sins, God is good enough to keep you in the midst of losing a spouse. God is good enough to keep you in the midst of losing a child. God is in the midst of keeping you while life seems chaotic and you've lost your job and so it's a counseling for the gospel in this situation your circumstances may look absolutely bleak and you may have jumped into being you know following God in the midst of those circumstances because the Word of God all we have to do is remind ourselves of the Word of God. So you're talking about the same gospel in light of different circumstances? Yeah, the gospel isn't just to become a Christian. The gospel is how you are a Christian. If you think the gospel is just the entranceway, and then you don't have to think about it anymore, you're wrong. As long as we clear the air. Yeah, yeah, you're wrong. Let's just be as blunt as possible there. The gospel has to maintain and preserve and keep failing Christians. And it's because when you fail, that's the other part of this, when you fail, you need the gospel to to find forgiveness and reconciliation in the temple. Going back to the cross. Yeah, it's not like you lost your salvation, but you need to experience the peace of God anew through the gospel. Yeah. What is it in Philippians where they're... Paul is instructing them between two ladies, I believe, to work out their salvation. Yes. Is that what they're talking about in a circumstance? You talked about yesterday exercising your faith. How faith is not something that you did when you were six or when you were 35, but it was something played out. And that is the gospel in your life now. Am I hearing you right in your definition of exercising your faith? Yeah. I mean, faith has been treated like it's a ticket you get punched. You know, come on down, we'll give you a piece of paper, you've got your ticket to heaven, and that's all faith was really necessary for. There was a bad revivalistic movement that really... Fire insurance kind of... Yeah, promoted that, here, come down, pray a prayer, you've got your fire insurance or your ticket, and that's what faith was really reduced to. Now, faith is a whole new way of looking at life, a whole new way of thinking about yourself and God and your friends and your family. Faith is... Learning to be patient, not because you're going to just sit there and stoically take heat, but it's learning to be patient because you know that God is the one who will vindicate your name. It's being patient because you know God is working out all things for good for his people. Faith is endearing in the midst of temptation because you know if you give in to that temptation and you actually participate in that sin, you're bringing shame on the name of Christ. You're pulling yourself out of experiencing Christ. Faith is trusting that God is good and he is worth following. But in every circumstance, we have to learn to follow in a different degree, I think. Okay, so in following God in that different degree, I know that in my circumstances when I'm in trouble, I often want to stretch the truth. I have a desire to fear man. I want to look at man as a higher person than God in many circumstances, or I want to rely on my own abilities to get myself out of trouble. or hopefully rely on other people to get me out of trouble. What's the opposite of that in terms of how is the gospel the actual answer of that in troubled circumstances? Yeah, so whenever you're tempted to sin in order to cover up a sin, what you're trying to do there is maintain a self-righteousness. And the irony is you're using sin to protect your sin. That is a denial of the gospel. That's how we get back to counseling ourselves with the gospel. So, whenever you're tempted to, when you realize there's sin and you're afraid of anyone seeing that you're actually a sinner, what you're doing is denying the gospel and you're denying an opportunity to experience Christ and for others to experience Christ in you. So, let's say you're tempted to stretch the truth in order to protect your own sin. Well, what you need to do is refuse, repent of your self-righteousness of wanting to protect yourself as a sinner. So an example of when I wrestle with stretching the truth is whenever I'm late. When I'm late to somewhere, I'm thinking of all the different excuses I can come up with and trying to tie them to the truth as much as possible so that I don't complete lies. And while I counsel myself through how am I going to explain how I'm late, it's just obvious that they're all lies. And so as I'm thinking about Jesus Christ, and I'm thinking about the Gospels, I'm thinking about who I'm supposed to be as a man who represents the truth, I have to just admit I'm late because I slapped in, or I'm late because I goofed off too much, and therefore I'm not... Too much women's FIFA World Cup soccer? I have to admit, I have not watched any women's FIFA World Cup soccer. Don't lie, brother. I did hope to watch the Gold Cup Saturday night, but it wasn't on TV. Anyway, it was the men's local cup. Yeah, so there are circumstances where I wrestle with, you know, how do I present myself as self-righteous, and I just realized the more I try to build up my own self-righteousness, the less I am allowing the Spirit to do a good work in me, the less I'm exercising my faith and trusting God, and the less I'm allowing others to experience Christ in me. Well, I'm not going to let you go any further, because I don't want this to be a category for you to confess all your sins. I think we'll just leave it at you counseling yourself with the gospel and view of how we read in Genesis 25 and 26 of how the gospel is being taught to us in light of God choosing us for as good purposes in the election of us as saints. Is there anything that you left unsaid in the last two sermons about election that would be helpful for us? I think your personality is naturally that we want to see election as a comforting doctrine of God. God lovingly saving us and rescuing us and then lovingly keeping us for his great purposes. Yeah, the doctrine of election promotes humility. So I would never pick on someone because they don't agree with me on the doctrine of election and all the points. You're missing the point of that. What I want to promote is the fact that we should be humble before Christ because he has done all the work for us. We should boast only in Christ because he's done all the work for us. It's the ethos and the pathos of the doctrine of election that most Calvinists really don't seem to get. They get the logos, they get the logic and the reason and the intellectual aspect of it, but so many who claim to be Calvinists, they're arrogant and they look down at others with their noses and they lose the real ethos of what the doctrine should be teaching. So you may get it intellectually, but too many just don't get it in their heart. So, if I could say anything about the doctrine of election, it should promote humility, boasting in Christ, love for God, love for neighbor. Alright, well I know that once you start using pathos, ethos, and logos, it's time to wrap up the interview. So, Keith, the 4th of July coming up, arguably the best Southern Baptist holiday of the year. What, uh, do you have plans to shoot off fireworks illegally in the Commonwealth of Virginia? I do not. I'm not even sure where you'd buy them. There aren't any fireworks stands here. I could have bought some in North Carolina, but... Is that legal to bring them across the line? I don't know. I didn't... I don't want to break the law. My neighborhood knows me as the pastor. How would you counsel yourself in the gospel in shooting fireworks? I'm going to go watch someone else shoot fireworks, legally, at a park. Well, I'm not an activist, but something needs to change so that we can shoot Roman candles. You can shoot guns. Oh, okay. All right. Counsel yourself with that, gospel friend. All right. Well, Keith, thanks so much for answering some of these difficult questions. If any of you have questions, please send them in to congregation at jpbc.org and we'll fire them away next week. Keith, what are you preaching on next week? Esau and Jacob again, we're going to deal with some hunger again, some hairiness, but less red. Less red. Good. All right.