Q&A Genesis 18-19

Hey everybody, thanks again for listening to Q&A with the Pastor. Yesterday, Keith preached a sermon on Genesis 18 and 19 and about Sodom and Gomorrah. So I'm sitting down with Keith right now at Jefferson Park and I'm just going to ask him a couple questions about the sermon. And also some questions that some of you have emailed me, and you can always email a question about the sermon at congregation at jpbc.org. That's congregation at jpbc.org. And I'll be happy to throw those questions at Keith and try to stumble with them. Keith, the first question we have from Genesis 18 and 19 is, I'm going to take kind of a quote out of context and see what you're going to do with it. Yesterday you said that God is in hell. You want to maybe clarify that a little bit, maybe explain a little bit more, or maybe tell us how we may have been wrong for about 2,000 years. Is God in hell? Well, the quote I gave was that hell is a place of the negative, so it's without friendship, it's without comfort, and it's without God. And what I was intending to say was that God's presence, I believe, is still in hell. The quote was very good in the sense that it was correcting the view that Satan is there, the Lord of Hell, tormenting people. I don't think Satan is tormenting people. I think Satan is going to be tormented in Hell. God is omnipresent. I think heaven is a place where God's goodness is manifested by acting in grace so that those who are saved in Jesus Christ are not under judgment. I think the earth is a place where God's goodness is revealed with wrath and mercy. So, we now live in a world where we have common grace and we have mercy so that our sin is not evident to us always and God's wrath isn't being poured out upon that sin. Whereas in hell, there is no mercy. In hell, there is no grace. In hell, our sin is confronted always by the glory, power, goodness of God. And that is the source of the agony. So I was simply trying to state that that is a place where God's presence is. And it is God's presence being manifested and poured out upon sin. Was that kind of the gist of your sermon? You would say is we as a culture only want to see God in His goodness. And we have to remind ourselves through the text of Genesis 18 and 19 that there is also God's judgment and wrath as a part of who He is. Is that kind of what you're going at with Really talking about hell in the way that she did. Yeah, or limiting the definition of what God's goodness is, as if God's goodness is only when he gives us mercy. God's goodness is also evident whenever he judges sin. God's goodness, God being a good God, which is his attribute, outwardly expresses itself in wrath and mercy. So, yeah, I think it's more of when we say God is good, that doesn't mean he's always going to show mercy. It also means he's going to judge soon. I think we would also see this in the circumstances of parenting. And a loving parent will also discipline their child, not just let their child run amok. So we see God's goodness through his judgment. One thing that you did, I think that really gripped everyone who was at the service yesterday was you read a quote and it talked about a Biblical kind of viewpoint of what hell is and what what the devil is in the midst of that it's not a cute little guy with horns poking you and stabbing you but it's a a Can you kind of go into what that quote may have said a little bit more, and also where did you get that quote? Where can some of us find that quote? The quote was from James McLeod, and it was actually published in the Scottish newspaper. I found the quote in a Ligon Duncan sermon on Genesis 19. So that was my source, and I just ripped it right out of the sermon and cut and pasted it into mine. The quote was very helpful in the sense that it got rid of this idea that Satan is there and he's going to be poking and prodding. I think it showed the real depth of sin. One of the things that really stood out to me in the quote was that it called out and said there will be Baptists, Presbyterians, and other Catholics there who are not really faithful to Christ. They're really just more faithful to their denomination. And then more so, I think pertinent for our day, he said a special deep dark place will be there for the ministers who have declared that the message of the gospel is all about just his love and mercy, not about his judgment and wrath against sin. Obviously with Rob Bell's new book, this movement is always going to be there in Christianity because we don't like to talk about these things. I kind of want to go from the hell subject to to a little bit of what that also encompasses and that is a pursuing proper faith, and I know that you talked about Sarah's faith a lot in the midst of trials in the midst of Feeling a big amount of anxiety And you talked about Sarah having a genuine doubt against the Lord's will in her life Do you ever doubt like Sarah may have doubted are there ever circumstances where? You wonder what in the world is God doing in my life? And how would you counsel someone to to stop doing that? You know, how would you advise me to? Go from doubting God's will to pursuing God's will and and not be anxious Yeah, the two main areas that I get overwhelmed with kind of the natural impossibilities that would cause me to doubt God's power in the midst of those natural impossibilities would be finances and health. So finances just, I tend to, you know, look at budgets and just that's one area where I seem to, I found that I'm more prone to question kind of how things will meet, how things will match up, you know, with ends. And God's always been faithful. And so whenever I do, thankfully, I can look back over years now of realizing this is an anxiety point. I can remind myself that God has always been good. And I remind myself that if he's been good to me in the gospel, he's been good to me in what I need. Health has been an interesting one, just because my wife's health. I was hospitalized three years ago. And having been a very healthy person my whole life, it really freaked me out. So, whenever there's a health issue, I tend to look and just say, do I believe God can actually heal this? Especially when it's a long-term, difficult health problem. We've been praying for some families that have real serious health problems that, you know, there's real no obvious hope inside, medically. Those would be times that I personally struggle, and I just have to remind myself, if I believe Jesus Christ was able to die for my sins, he's able to heal the body. So it's always going back to the gospel and questioning, do I believe Jesus Christ rose from the dead? If he did that, he can do anything else. Yes, let's hope. You know, one of the things that's great about the way we do church here in Jefferson Park is you actually get to sit under preaching as well on Sunday nights. And the Sunday night sermon by Ben Bollard last night was about remembering Lot's wife. As you were preaching yesterday morning, before you were going to hear how do we properly remember biblically Lot's wife in the perspective of our own lives, how did you prepare in such a way that you were also examining Lot's wife? And then how did you walk away from last night's short sermon which is also on Sermon Audio and we would encourage people to go listen to. How did you walk away from that also reflecting on remembering Lot's wife? Yeah, so I choose the New Testament text for the evening that corresponds to the Old Testament text or vice versa depending on where we're preaching from. I knew that was where Ben was going to be preaching from, and so I intentionally left off, even though that was probably one of the easiest. That was kind of a low-hanging fruit application, because it's clearly denying yourself and moving ahead to the new life. I mentioned it briefly. I already had to cut out quite a bit from the sermon, as it was, and knowing from Ben's previous Sunday evening devotion that he was going to do an outstanding job in delivering God's Word faithfully. I actually had in my notes, see Ben Bullard, that I knew that it was going to be quite good. Yeah, Ben, I asked him afterwards if he had plagiarized a Spurgeon sermon because it was very Spurgeon-esque, just taking one small little phrase and blowing it up so quickly in application. Yeah, Ben gained a couple hundred pounds and started smoking cigars. We may have a Spurgeon on him. Yeah, yeah. In my perspective, it's kind of like zooming in on Google Earth, how you see this world and then you go in and you can move about. It was great to see how we use scripture to really examine our hearts. One thing I kind of want to talk about with examining our own hearts and also teaching the gospel to ourselves, One person asked a question to you. Mike asked the question, how does he mortify the sin of his personal pride so that he sees God's wrath poured out on individuals instead of, excuse me, instead of wanting God's wrath poured out on individuals, and we're specifically talking about terrorists in light of Osama bin Laden's death or child molesters or murderers, but rather than wanting God's wrath poured out on someone, Rather, we want God's mercy to be poured out on someone and to love our enemies enough to pray for God's mercy for them. How do we look at our enemies in light of what we see God's just and good wrath poured out on Sodom and Gomorrah? Yeah, this, while I was watching the coffee show last night with my wife, and there was this funny scene where this fellow's tone Heathcliff Huxtable that he wants to find himself. And of course, Heathcliff says, well, how long do you think that's going to take? And anyway, great episode, episode 10 on season one. I think the answer would be to find yourself. Recognize, and not the Heathcliff Huxtable joke way, find yourself in who you really are, which means you have to identify yourself as an enemy of God. So whenever you think of that perverse child molester or you think of that terrorist, the first thing you should do is realize that is a great, grievous, gross sin. And then realize that it's only by God's grace that you have not gone that far in your sin. And then realize what a horrible sinner you truly are. that your sin runs deep, that your sin is still, even though you haven't manifested itself in such a gross way, your sin is still greatly offensive to God, and that you should be treated as an enemy. And so as you kind of go through that process of seeing it's only by God's grace that I'm not in that sin, it's by God's grace that I'm forgiven as a sinner and an enemy, That gives you the proper position of finding yourself, of recognizing your identity so that you can then see how gracious you have been treated. Then you can show grace. It's only whenever you realize how great the grace is that you've received that you can start showing grace to others. That was the whole point of the sermon yesterday. Until you see God's goodness in how he should judge your sin, you're not going to recognize how great his goodness really is and how you've been forgiven for your sins. So that's an excellent question and that's what we call counseling yourself with the gospel. So you're just talking about lowering, not necessarily lowering the value of yourself because our value is very high in Christ, but seeing where we started out from. in light of who Christ is and also knowing that a terrorist or a child molester is in that same state without Christ. Does that cause you to pursue people who society would seem as low and feeble in that you also once were there and so you almost see an image of yourself? Well, I kind of have the benefit of being actually on the road towards absolute destruction at some point. I mean, God saved me out of a very reckless lifestyle where I was going Nowhere, and to worse places, I used to be a wicked person. But actually, I think I recognize my sin more today than I did when I was acting out that sin, simply because I've examined my heart. I've been able to see, you know, Christ says we're adulterers when we lust in our hearts, not just when we commit adultery. So it's recognizing how deep those desires go that are opposed to God, and seeing that it's by God's grace alone that I haven't acted on the different desires that are waging war in my own soul. Being thankful for the Holy Spirit that is there protecting, guiding, and keeping me. Kind of on those similar subjects of looking at people wanting to know ways to care for them and pray for them. You talked explicitly yesterday in the sermon about showing hospitality to members in the church but also non-believers. What are some of the ways that younger people who may not have their own kitchen or if they're in college they probably don't have pots and pans where they can cook for a family. or they might not have the financial ability or the social ability to really show hospitality to others. What are some of the ways that a younger person in the younger generation can show hospitality? Yeah. I mean, depending on your situation in life, if you're a young single with an occupation and you cook, that's one of the situations where I would say, why don't you just call up one of the larger families or a family at all and say, can I bring you a meal over? Or if you're a guy and you have the financial means, just order pizza. Or if you want to take it to one of our more health conscious, order McDonald's. That would be fun to see how they would respond to you. You know, for a college student, I would, if you're like your typical college student where you're barely getting by and you're eating ramen noodles and whatnot, just enjoy the season of life of having other members have you over into their homes. Long for that fellowship. The hospitality, I mean a meal is very significant in, well, biblical times and it should be in ours. where sharing a meal is really an opportunity for fellowship and intimacy. In the New Testament times, Jews didn't have a casual meal with people. And I think here in our membership and Christians having meals together, I think you should long to have that kind of Fellowship and an experience which is I was at a fun experiencing Christ in one another So yeah, don't don't get bogged down with the technicalities of how to you know make the food and the the the venue work Enjoyed if you're a young college student Yeah, just just enjoy doing whatever you you can our meals the only way that we can show hospitality to one another No, that's one of the more defined ways. I think one of the ways you can be hospitable is caring for one another's needs. Actually seeking out strangers or seeking out people who may have other needs and just spending time with them. It's not just the meal, but spending time, significant time caring for others. Maybe thinking of questions to send to you and I that we can answer from the sermon. Right? Correct. Okay. Thank you. You talked a lot about inviting people over to your home. You and Lisa do this as a couple and as a family. There are many other people in the church who do this as a family. Do you think that the openness of one's actual home is a good reflection or is it a true reflection of that person's heart as well? Kind of wanting to be examined, wanting to encourage other people, wanting to grow together, the desire to have their heart more built up in a gospel community. Yeah, you don't have to invite someone into your home, but there is something maybe symbolic there about how much you're wanting to invite people into your life. Your home is your life. My home is a very special, sacred place for my family. It's sacred space. I have a door because I don't want just anyone barging in. So it's sacred space for my wife and daughter and I. We play, we sing. We have our meals together. And inviting someone into our home, I mean, it's not an act of worship to God, but it's inviting people into my actual life so they can see where I eat, how I eat, how I spend my time, what's on my bookshelf, what I'm listening to on the radio. It's just a way of sharing my personal life with someone else and opening up myself to them. It's a small symbolic way of that transparency that we've been talking about for some time. So when am I invited over next? You have an open invitation. Okay. You have a great heart, brother. Well, that's all the questions I've got. Is there anything from the sermon that you kind of left out, either intentionally or unintentionally, that you kind of wish, I wish I could tell the body this now. I mean, here's your opportunity. Yeah, there was actually a whole page of notes I cut out because time had gotten away from me, and as many have said, maybe I'm taking too big of chunks. This was a literary unit, so I had to take it together, I feel. There was a whole section on homosexuality, and that was the particular sin that was pinpointed in Sodom and Gomorrah with the men of young, of old, of Sodom, seeking after these angels. I basically just look at that first Corinthians text where it says if anyone claims to be a Christian but yet he's practicing adultery, homosexuality. greed, a long list of sins. I looked at that, I was going to look at that and just simply say, look, homosexuality is one sin among all these other sins. And too often in evangelical circles, we prioritize sins or we even start thinking that some sins are acceptable. So, you know, greed, maybe not today with the whole how Wall Street has fallen and people are really upset with greed, but It seems like so many sins are acceptable. So, adultery is more acceptable than homosexual lifestyle. Now, I do think Paul teaches in Romans that homosexuality is a further perversion of our sexualities. I'm not discounting that. But we seem to... Well, there's an extreme. It could be like Westboro Baptist who wants to picket homosexuality. funerals. That's not showing them any grace or love. That's not showing them any civility. That's gross. That's gross hatred in and of itself. That's worse sin in many ways. So it's just a challenge not to think of some sins as acceptable and some sins as not, and to look at the list and not prioritize, but see all of these sins as something that are things that are offensive to God. Great. Well, that's basically all the time we've got today, so we thank you for listening to this Q&A with the pastor. And if you have questions from next week's sermon, which, Keith, what is next week's sermon going to be on? It's a bit of, it's actually two stories in one here. We're going to look at Abraham's fleeing and lying to Abimelech. Kind of the same thing that happened in Egypt. And then we're going to see another episode of God taking good care of Hagar. Right before, well I'm most excited about two weeks from now, we'll be looking at Genesis 22. One of the, really the climax of God's call to Abraham to sacrifice Isaac. Okay. I'm sure there will be lots of questions from that. Not that you're not clear in your sermons, but if you have a question for the Q&A with the pastor, you can email me at congregation at jpbc.org. And I'll be happy to ask Keith next week, next Monday, when we sit down together. Keith, thanks so much.