Q&A Colossians 1:15-20

Hey everybody, thanks again for listening to a Q&A with a Pastor, where I'm sitting down here with Keith. A couple days after he preached through Colossians 1, verses 15 through 20, where we are seeing the supremacy of Christ in the book of Colossians. Now Keith, as you were preaching that, just another reminder, how is the theme of Colossians played out in this specific passage? Yeah, I think I tried to summarize the theme of Colossians as Christ is all I need, I need to want nothing else. And as, well, very similar to Ephesians, Paul starts with the deep, rich theology and then runs through the rest of the book then with application from that. And I think here he's actually starting with a hem that exalts Christ highly. Therefore, he will then explain how that functions so that we need nothing other than this exalted, powerful, Christ, who is both creator and head of the church. Okay, so within the book of Colossians, it doesn't seem like he's giving a hard rebuke of anything, but it seems like he's reminding them of the gospel in light of their lack of true Christian lifestyle, and one of those seems to be a revolving effect of angels and higher beings more than humans. If there's such a problem with angels and our understanding of angels, then why did God create them? Well, first, the rebuke question was interesting as you started that question, because it's not like Galatians where he does give a hard rebuke because they're adopting something that is circumcision in Judaism. They're adding that to the gospel. Here, they're adding something much more philosophical, but yet still a Jewish, a Judaic twist with the angels being involved. So, I've actually wondered why he's always so harsh with Galatians, with the Church of Galatia, but here at Colossae, he's very kind. Anyway. Maybe they're tender people. Why did God create angels? Because here, at least, we see that they create problems. Obviously, we know Satan was an angel created by God, and he obviously caused quite a problem. Yeah, I found that question interesting in the sense that, you know, they do seem to be this very mysterious being. What is their purpose? They are meant to serve and worship God in the heavenly realm. They are spirit beings. As I mentioned in the sermon, they're actually higher than us in terms of the order of being ontologically. So, why did He create them? Well, the simple question is to glorify Him. They were supposed to worship and serve Him. I actually find it more fascinating is the question, why did God seek to redeem and reconcile angels to Himself? The very fact that it's very clear in Hebrews, he became lower than angels. He actually sought to redeem the creatures below the angels, whereas angels, if they rebel, it seems like they're lost in rebellion. They don't get redemption. That question is actually one that interests me more. I don't know. I'm thankful for it. But why did he create angels is a simple question. It's just the same reason he created everything else, for his glory. The real issue is how they function in terms of how they were able to rebel, what kind of will that they have, and how come they do not have the opportunity to repent and be saved by a Savior. I answered your question by giving a further question. You're welcome. Let me ask another question on top of that. Do you think, is there a difference in that man is made in the image of God, are angels also made in the image of God or are they made in a different way that makes them differently and distinct from humans and does that have anything as God seeks to reconcile the image bearers? No, the image of God clearly has a huge different role for us and angels and we have a unique specific role here on earth. This particular sphere, this creation is what we were meant for. The angels, I mean, they're in the heavens and the earth. They don't have a specific sphere like we do, it seems like. Maybe I need to get more into my angelology here. But, yeah, we do have a more specific role in being made in the image of God. That's why we were so wealthy. God created us to be incarnated. God created us so that he could become like us, already knowing. I guess we'll have to wait and ask him. Yes. So it sounds like why did God create angels to glorify himself? Why is there such a problem? Because we're fallen people? Is that a... Could I answer your question for yourself? You're welcome, yes. All right, one thing that you said at least twice in this last sermon, you said it a couple times before, you said a certain passage of this section is a ground for the other preceding verses. What is, for people who don't know, what is a ground? What are you talking about? Do we specifically need to know that to understand this part of Scripture? Yeah, I apologize. I actually meant to say a ground or a basis for what he says here. So, if we look in verse 15, he makes two bold declarations about the Son. The first one is that he is the image of the invisible God. The second one is that he's the firstborn of all creation. Verse 16 is the ground for verse 15. And the ground being is the basis by which he is making the assertion. He's making very bold proclamations In verse 15, and in verse 16, he then transitions to give the explanation as to why he's able to make such bold declarations. It's because by him, all things were created. So, it's really him giving an explanation, the groundwork for being able to make such a bold proclamation. That's what it means to be a ground. It's a technical term that I wish I hadn't used. I didn't mean to. And how to analyze how the different phrases in a passage relate to one another. So one way, another way phrases could relate to one another was a purpose. There's actually some purpose clauses in here. So you can see that there's a for as a ground and a so that's a purpose. Okay. So let's just say that you want to continue using that sort of language in a sermon. How can we understand, know more about that? Is there a book about that? Where can we find out more information on breaking text down like that? Well, the language where I got that from is from Thomas Schreiner's Interpreting the Pauline Epistles. It actually goes through and helps you know how to diagram them grammatically. That's actually what I typically, well, that's what I've been really enjoying doing with Colossians. But then after you diagram it, you then analyze how all the different phrases relate each passage to other passages. And that way you know what the main idea is and then what the supporting ideas are. Okay. So you're looking at the flow of argument. Yeah, I was actually looking at grammar, Yeah, I'm looking at the grammar of the text and letting it direct where the passage goes. Okay. Any other technical things that you can nerd us with? Not right now. Okay, we'll wait. We'll come back. There is a conditional clause in the next passage that's very important, so we'll get into that. I'll Google that. Back to the text. You talked a lot about seeing the face of God, understanding that relationship with the face of God and the image bearer of Christ. Concerning seeing the face of God, since John 1.18 says that no one has seen God, Was Jacob, in the Old Testament, was Jacob possibly mistaken about his experience in Genesis 32? And this is where he's wrestling with God when he says that he saw God face to face and yet his life was still delivered. Or, I guess a better way to put it is, what is the difference between what Jacob saw in Genesis and what John is referring to in John 1, 18, in seeing the face of God? Yeah, I remember looking at that Jacob passage in Genesis and really wondering what did he see because obviously Moses was not allowed to see the face of God. He had to see the hind parts. Jesus says you can see the face of God, but that's because he himself has come to show us the face of God. So I think the face that we see in Jesus, the face of God, the vision of God that we get in Jesus is much clearer than what Jacob got. That I can say absolutely. Whatever bit of God Jacob did get to see, it wasn't as much as what we would be seeing now in Jesus as we look and hear Him. We hear God's Son actually speaking to us in Scripture with the words that He used with His mouth here on earth. So, I'm not quite sure what Jacob saw. I mean, it clearly was a bold expression of God. It was a bold vision of God that changed his life, but in terms of if it were the same kind of clarity of face that one would see with Jesus, it certainly isn't the clarity of face that we're going to see in heaven, because we still look at it as if in a mirror dimly. So, yeah, it is different in terms of quality, I would say. So how can you encourage someone to long for and see Christ the way he's spoken about in this passage? If we see Christ as the visible of the invisible, yet he's not here, how can you encourage someone to pursue that? Yeah, there's two key passages I would say that we need to meditate on together. That's a good question. in John 16, 7, where Jesus says, it's to your advantage that the Holy Spirit come, because he will reveal all things. And the Holy Spirit is the one that illuminates the heart. It's not our eyes that will help us see Jesus, it's actually our heart. And we need to, the second passage is Matthew 5, 8. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. And so I think if we take those two texts together, we pray that the Spirit will show us more of God and more of our sins, so that see God better. There's a constant growth. There should be a constant growth. We talked about it two weeks ago. There should be a constant growth in our knowledge of God because we're constantly seeing Him in His holiness, which automatically reveals more of our sin, which when we repent we see more of His holiness that then reveals more of our sin. There should be a constant growth. So if we want to see God, we prayerfully pursue Him in how He has revealed Himself in His and in his fellowship of the body, and in prayer and singing and so forth. God has given us clear direction on how to worship him and pursue him. We typically don't want the ways God has given us. We want to go find other extraordinary means, whereas God giving us words in Scripture, that's extraordinary. We need to pursue those and know them there. Now towards the end of your sermon you briefly spoke about how a non-believer thinks he can have peace in life But how there's always something that continues to unsettle him What what do you mean by that specifically speaking to a non-believer and how? We all want some kind of Shalom We all want you know we want to go to bed comforted that everything's okay If there's still something creeping in that that they worry about There's an article that was put out by the Gospel Coalition. They're just referencing an article from a secular group. And the article is writing about how too many people, a lot of people in the age of reason, in terms of the French Revolution and then our recent kind of love of reason over God with Dawkins, they've tried to replace God with reason and it's left people wanting. And this guy's arguing that, you know, there's still an emotional desire that's not being met by this, you know, the reason, the God of reason. And so, everyone's always unsettled until we're meant for God. So, we will not have peace until we have that wrath of God removed from us or not. So, if I could press non-Christians, the key there is that I think we all know that things are not the way they're supposed to be. We constantly try to cover up our infirmities, our weaknesses, and that thing that is, we know as sinners Christians, but as a non-Christian you wouldn't know what a sin is as directly as we would. We try to cover up that weakness with, you know, medication, or fantasy, or hobby, or activity. And so, that restlessness that undergirds all of us We're constantly trying to quiet it. That's why we're a very numbed, medicated people these days. We've wanted to medicate that yearning and that desire for something more that God created us with so that He can fulfill it. Instead of actually seeking Him, we're numbing it or finding other ways to find that fulfillment, which is unsatisfactory. So yeah, you try everything in life, and ultimately you're left, this does not make me happy. One example would be the feminist agenda. Women, if you go out, you can have a job, you can have a career, you can also have a family as well, and you'll be satisfied. Don't be stuck at home, you'll never be happy. I think a lot of women who pursued that dream are left wanting. Always wanting more. Yeah, being in the workplace and having all that America has to offer you, It doesn't bring you peace. It leaves you wanting because our greatest need and what we were created for is to know God. Is that basically what you were going after in this passage in terms of trying to present such a high view of Christ, such a glorifying view of Christ that's portrayed in the scripture that everything else would seem dull compared to it? I mean, so if I see this image in this passage of Jesus Facebook seems boring to me, right? I mean, is that kind of what you're going for in that aspect of not having anxiety, not being satisfied by the things of this world, but... Did you just confess your idol live on the air? No, not Facebook. More like Twitter, but not... Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, I mean, if there's anything found wanting in the sermon, it's my exaltation of Christ. That was a huge burden. Christ is exalted. He is high and preeminent. I cannot say enough words that would actually help us think about how exalted he is. The key is for us to continue to be trying to bend our hearts and our minds to see him in his exalted state. And of course, the following condition that would be there is to continue to look down to try to find peace rather than look up to Christ. So, yeah, that was kind of the key sin that the text presented, is that not having peace Well, the first part was trusting angels, the second part would be not having peace. Very good. And just lastly, well, before that, what about a Christian in that aspect who still is anxious, still maybe is not at peace? How would you talk to a Christian who they confess Christ, they see Christ as exalted, they know that Christ alone is satisfactory, but they are still anxious and they still have anxiety? Actually, it's interesting because the next passage really deals with that. The next passage deals with assurance and perseverance. Verse 21, if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, he's saying you will be reconciled if you continue. I think the big problem with a lot of Christians is that they get a ticket to ride to heaven, but they are never instructed, they never long for salvation in the sense that they are actually safe from their sins. They're not safe from the consequences of their sins. They're actually safe from their sins. We lack assurance. We lack peace because we're not pursuing God as Christians. That's just a prevalent... It's not an American thing. It's not a modern thing. That's just a way sinful Christians have always functioned. It's become prevalent with a revivalistic movement of faith. To say this is like a new thing is historically naive. Okay. Did you just call me naive? No, no, no, no, no. Anyone who might be thinking, yeah, that's what's wrong with America. No, that's what's wrong with all the Christians. All the time. We just continue. Don't think that there was a golden age of Christianity. As soon as they left Jerusalem, the golden age was over. Yeah, okay. Now, towards the end of your sermon again, you spoke briefly about redeeming the culture and God's new creation. Speaking of the golden age of Christianity, there seems to be a bigger discussion happening within how you were talking about what new creation looks like, how Christians are participating in redeeming society and culture around us. Go into a little bit more of what you were aiming at within that argument of our expectation of Christ redeeming the world. Maybe this is, I try not to take pot shots in my sermon because it's all about what scripture says. I mean, it's talking about reconciling all things and it's the Creator reconciling all things to him. So I thought, okay, the creation is being reconciled and what does that look like and how do I participate in it? That's a key issue there. I'm actually writing something right now on what is the mission of the church. And what I'm doing is going back and looking at there's three main relationships that God gives to man. There's God's relationship with man. There's man's relationship with man. There's man's relationship with the world. And three of those are being used in our contemporary evangelical culture to say one of these three or all of these three or two of these three are the mission of the church. And so I looked, okay, so man's relationship with creation is broken. But God only promises that it will be renewed. He never gives us instruction for how to renew it. He gives us instruction for how to live in it well, you know, giving Sabbath rest and years of Jubilee. But too many people take the Romans 8 passage, and this is just annoying me. This is probably why I came out. I may need to repent of letting annoyance affect the way I preach. It's a major theme in Christianity today that I think is worth correcting, just like the Colossian problem needed correcting. People think they can fix creation. We need to help God fix creation. Christian's groaning. We've got to help it. No, Paul's whole point there is that creation's rolling just like our hearts are rolling for the real redemption that only Christ can bring. You're the one that caused the problem. Don't think you can fix it. It's Christ. Yeah, I'm already getting fired up because it's a frustrating thing for me. I'm all about redeeming some culture, but it's my garden. That's my little piece of agriculture that I get to redeem and I enjoy it. But it's folks who go into you know all things of this world need to be redeemed for the next and it's uh it's just uh It's leading the church in a bad direction and according to my little humble position So what is the mission of the church in light of that? Exalt Christ. That passage is I wish I could preach I wish I I want to preach a passage like that every Sunday. I try to make sure Christ is always exalted. If Christ is exalted, He would draw them into Him. The goal of God, as I see it, the will of God, is to reconcile sinners to Himself and reconcile all of creation eventually. The particular plan of salvation that we get to be incorporated in is to be ambassadors of Christ, to proclaim the ministry of reconciliation. So that's where I am. There are ways that we should be trying to protect the planet. I don't want to say, you know, let's go out and abuse the planet now. But it's just too much of a theme. You know, is it a major theme or is it a motif? I would say it's a motif at best. So Keith's the gardener. You have no care for the world. Is that what you're saying? Well no, I'm the gardener. I care for the world. I'm more concerned about sinners and hell than I am about art and bridges. Very well put. Very well put, especially since we have a broken bridge down the street. Would you redeem that bridge if you could? That just convinced me to completely change my theology because I hate that bridge. Well, before we get carried away, your next sermon, Lord Willing and Colossians, what should we expect? How can we prepare ourselves for it this coming Sunday? A very great declaration of who we were and how Christ redeemed us is very similar to verses 13 and 14. He delivered us from the domain of darkness into the kingdom of his beloved Son. Here it actually says, you were once alienated, now you're reconciled. So there's a great declaration of who we were and what Christ did for us. And then the major charge is actually that we would remain steadfast, very much like a Hebrews theme that you actually read as the call to worship this week. Stand firm. Do not be shaken. Do not give up the confession of Christ alone under the temptation of angels or persecution or sin or whatever it may be. So it's a great call for perseverance, which is a call to assurance. Can't wait to ask questions about that. I'm sure there will be a lot more next week. Yeah. Okay, you're shaking your head. You seem doubtful that I can address that. No, no, no. I just come in so confused that I can't wait to ask questions. All right. Well, Keith, thanks for taking time to talk with us again about Colossians 1, 15 through 20. We pray in anxiousness and looking forward to how the Spirit will speak to us next week.